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× 1: Setting the Scene - Portland OR 2: The Murder of Mulugeta Seraw 3: Building Community Defense 4: The Minneapolis Baldies and Anti Racist Action 5: They Thought We Were Everywhere: the Portland ARA 6: House Defense 7: A Research Capacity: The Work of the CHD 8: SHARPer Times 9: The Story of Jon Bair 10: Less Booted, More Suited 11: Nothing is Final Bonus Episodes

Episode Four Transcript

Episode Four: The Minneapolis Baldies and Anti Racist Action


CELINA

This podcast contains lots of swearing and violence, occasional use of the n word, and other content that some people may find disturbing or offensive.

MIC

This is Mic Crenshaw, one of your hosts for It Did Happen Here. This episode is personal. Back in the 80s, I was a member of the Minneapolis Baldies, a multi-racial crew of anti racist skinheads that started around 1986. In 2019, I went to Minneapolis to do interviews for a book I'm writing about Black skinhead culture. I sat down with some of my old crew to talk about those days. I recorded these interviews in bars and peoples' apartments and coffee shops as reference notes for myself on my computer. There are also interviews with me in a lot of different settings. You may be wondering how the story of a mid-west skinhead relates to Portland and its struggle with neo-nazi violence, don't worry. We'll get there. For right now, let's start in about 1985, when I moved to Minneapolis.

MIC

I was a teenage kid, in Minneapolis, originally from Chicago. By the time I got to Minneapolis, I didn't really fit in and I was tired of always going to new schools and trying to find new friends. And so, that’s when the hardcore punk scene started to appeal to me because I started meeting people from that scene and I was like “well, these guys aren’t trying to fit in.”

MIC

When you hear us talk about “the scene”, or the punk scene, what we're talking about is a social net of people, places, concert venues, record stores, clubs, bookstores, places where we would organize and just spend time being around each other. That network of people and places is what we mean when we say “the scene”.

MIC

The music we were listening to spoke to me cause it was hard and it had a lot of energy, and it had a message. My group of friends and I started rolling around together and at the time we were like straight edge, skateboarding together. Me, this brother Jason Nevilles who's a Native American kid, couple working class white kids, there was about 7 of us at first.

MIC

Around the time of our founding, national news stories and talk show segments began to bring publicity to the rise of neo-nazi skinheads.

MIC

There was no popular media stories at that time of the real roots of the skinhead subculture. The news shows like Sally-Jessy Raphael and Donahue, and all that stuff that was on, they started giving a platform to all the white power boneheads.

MIC

These skinheads were often on talk shows with a panel of other guests, including members of the Ku Klux Klan, American Nazi party, White Aryan Resistance, Hammerskins and American Front. The public image of skinheads was that they were all racist.

MIC

We're like, "that shit is whack!" But it was like, within a matter of days, people started emulating that in Minneapolis and we wanted to differentiate ourselves from the Nazis, so we decided to call ourselves the Minneapolis Baldies. We also understood that in numerous cities there had already been Baldies cliques. There was Fordham Baldies in New York, there was actually a older Minneapolis Baldies in the 50s and 60s.

MIC

When we decided on a name as a crew, we decided on The Baldies because the moniker set us apart from the racist connotation that had become standard association for skinheads.

MIC

So we started to see these kids who were just copying what they saw on TV and they started showing up in the areas we were hanging out and coming to shows. We got wind that some of these guys were white power so we confronted them.

JAY/GATOR

The Baldies started out of just a bunch of friends liking the skinhead culture.

MIC

This is Jay Nevilles, AKA Gator. Gator was a founding member of the Minneapolis baldies. Jason is Ojibwe, Native American. Jay was also straight edge and still is today. When I say straight edge I mean he doesn't abuse or use alcohol, drugs, or cigarettes.

JAY/GATOR

The more we got into it and started understanding what it was about, it was even cooler than we thought in the first place. Our plan wasn’t to be anti-fascist or antiracist, we just wanted to have a skinhead crew. And then those clowns that were hanging around starting up stuff, we’re gonna fuck these dudes up. Really the first dudes we fought were the 10th and Harmon punks.

MIC

The 10th and Harmon punks were a group of punk rockers that were a little bit older than us. They were more like professional punk rockers and like they look like the kids that you would see pictures of on postcards from England. They were all in bands. And they were kind of like the most popular cool kids. So I think when we came around, there became a little bit of a power struggle between those guys who used to be the coolest guys and us gaining popularity.

JAY

They're the ones who like got all I don't know, just weird. What are you talking about Al, you’re wearing a fucking swastika t-shirt.

MIC

There was a black dude that had a bald head, I don’t know if he would have called himself a skinhead, remember Pedro, walking Downtown with a swastika t-shirt. But then, that band Pure Hell, there’s a picture of one of them with a swastika. So, you know, they do point out the fact that in the early days of punk.

JAY

It was a shock thing

MIC

All the old gangs in NY were rockin' that shit.

JAY

Back then like when Al was still wearing that shirt, it was punk. But things were changing, "yo dude there’s actually for real nazi’s around the scenes all over the place that are starting to make shit happen and you can’t be wearing that."

MIC

The Swastika has been around since time immemorial as a symbol of spiritual significance in many cultures. In the era between World War One and World War Two, with the rise of the Nazis in Europe, the swastika took on new meaning as Hitler and Germany’s Nazi party appropriated the symbol as an emblem for their fascist movement. In the years following World War II, the swastika has continued to be a symbol of fascism, racial hatred and white power. There have been elements of outlaw motorcycle culture, punk rock and street gang culture that have used the symbol for its shock value and to intimidate and offend onlookers. We in the Baldies had formed a no tolerance policy for the symbol and would actively confront anyone wearing it in public. To us, it was nothing more than a symbol of hate, even if you had your own reasons that were not based on racism for wearing it, that was no excuse. People often talk about the rebel flag, right, the Confederate flag as a symbol of hate, which it is for many people. I think throughout the history of the symbol, there have been some people who felt that it was a symbol of regional pride for working class people from the South. There was a group called Young Patriots, that was actually in alignment with the Black Panther Party for self defense. And they were a group of young white people who were actually anti racist. But because they were primarily based from the southern part of the United States, they used the rebel flag or the Confederate flag as their symbol. Symbols are tools whose meanings shift depending on how they're put to use. The original meaning of the swastika's centuries-old message of well-being and good luck was forever undermined when it became a hate and propaganda centerpiece and a direct representation of WWII fascism synonymous with exterminating humans. And the Confederate battle flag on someone in 1980s Minnesota was a clear message. It was a symbol of racist beliefs.

MIC

My friends and I, we’d step to them and be like “hey man, are you guys white power?” and they were like, "yeah, man we're the White Knights," (the White Knights being the neo-nazi skinhead gang) and we're like, "well, you know, that's not gonna fly around here. We're going to give you a chance to denounce that shit, and the next time we see you, if you’re still claiming white power then there’s and there's going to be a problem," and that was the beginning of it all.

MIC

The White Knights had been organized by a racist skinhead named Paul Hollis. One of my early memories of Paul was him having a conversation with me and trying to explain that he totally supported Black pride, but he didn't support Black power. So, from that point on, I understood that Paul's ideas tended to lean towards being a white racist. He ultimately became the leader of the White Knights and he went on the news to confirm not only that he was the leader of the White Knights, but that he was a lead organizer in the local chapter of the Ku Klux Klan. And from that moment, he was our enemy. Once the Baldies became aware of the White Knights and their affiliation with the Klan, confronting them became a priority. The Baldies were now on a mission. We were driven. Our main purpose was to confront, fight and ultimately banish the White Knights from our scene.

MIC

Once we confronted these guys who were led by a member of the Klan, that began like a protracted period of violence on the streets where we would see them and we fuck them up and sometimes they would see us and we'd be outnumbered and they’d jump us and we were carrying weapons everywhere. Shows were often violent. We started to build allegiances with people outside our immediate clique. We started to reach out to some of the gangs, the Black, Latino gangs, people in Native American community and their street organizations. We started to build an allegiance of people that would take a stand fighting against these white power skinheads. In addition to that we built with other punks and Anarchists. We used the anarchist bookstore as a center for our organizing and meetings and cultural events.

MIC

Early in our days of consolidating our image, look, and style, we discovered a book called Skinhead by Nick Knight. It was a history of the skinhead subculture starting in the late 60s in England, complete with pictures and information on Ska and Oi, the two musical genres that defined a soundtrack for the skinhead lifestyles. It also talked about various stages of social and political development, as well as the wardrobe and uniform associated with the subculture. This book made its rounds among the crew and before long we were all wearing the traditional skinhead styles head to toe. Many of us would mix our skinhead style with elements of hip-hop and gang culture, hoodies, Adidas sambas, baggier khakis, flannel shirts, those were things that people were wearing in the US, and then the skinhead style was bomber jackets, suspenders, buttoned-down Oxford's, Fred Perry polo shirts, jeans, Army fatigues, Doc Marten boots, creepers, brogues.

NISSA

Lorraine was the one who shaved my head and I remember having to work up to it.

MIC

Here you're gonna hear from Nissa. Nissa was a member of the Minneapolis Baldies. She was one of a number of women who were core members of the Baldies.

NISSA

Skinhead culture and the scene and the history of it, it wasn't as deeply important to me as it was to everybody else. Me, it was was a lot more about like looking fine and listening to cool music, being sharp and standing for something. But right then in that moment, one of the really important things we were doing was seizing that look back and if I was going to be a part of this movement and fight White Knights, if this is something we really believe in and we could stop it? I just felt like I gotta do this. I need to put my money where my mouth is. I really thought it was important to shave my head and be a part of that.

MIC

At one point in time, there was a conflict between the women in the crew and the men in the crew about our sexism and not inviting the women to come to fights. And the women fought with us to be able and have the same right to come to the brawls with us. And from that moment forward, whenever we would go meet the Nazis to fight, it would be all of us not just the men. When people say skinheads sometimes people will mistakenly believe that one's head is shaven clean. For many skinheads, they would shave their hair short. Okay, so maybe a centimeter long, maybe a five o'clock shadow, and sometimes clean shaven. Skinhead girls often had either fully shaved heads, but more often you would see them with a fringe cut, or a Chelsea, where the bangs on the front side and back of their heads were grown out long. The experience of shaving one's head was a prerequisite to being a skinhead. Once you had shaved your head and you are a Baldie or skinhead, then it was something you kept up with. The reason skinheads shaved their head, was because we were known for our willingness to be violent and once in a fight, it was harder to pull one's hair if you didn't have any hair to pull. The fighting in and of itself, was something that was expected of you. We had violent enemies and we didn't wanna be with people who weren't gonna have our backs when we needed to protect ourselves. The degree to which fighting is and violence is scary, it is, because you can get hurt and you can get killed. But I think when you have people that stand with you, then there's a sense of courage and purpose, especially if the fighting is based in ideological beliefs that you're aligned with at the core of your being, then you're gonna be more committed to making it through whatever the situation is.

MARTY

As black men in particular we always have had to define ourselves. Self-determination has been one of our key points in our history in this country. Define ourselves before somebody defines yourself for you.

MIC

You’re listening to Marty. Marty currently lives in Atlanta, but Marty is a black skinhead from Chicago. Skinheads of Chicago or SHOC was a multiracial skinhead crew that was larger than the Baldies in numbers. Since I was originally from Chicago and Chicago was one of the closest major cities, we did a lot of work to form an allegiance with SHOC. Simultaneous to our problem with the White Knights in Minneapolis, SHOC had a problem with Nazis in their own city, namely, CASH or Chicago Area Skinheads, and we would often take trips to each other’s city to support each other in organizing and confronting the Nazis. Marty and some other Black skinheads from SHOC eventually moved to Minneapolis for periods of time. And we were basically family.

MARTY

I think it's important that as black men that we've been able to articulate our experiences in this country through the lens of real working class struggle and I think that's kind of how it's gone for me. A lot of kids from since, forever have always formed gangs or cliques or clubs. That's kind of how it started, with Irish working-class kids creating gangs and fighting against the nativist kids, you know gangs of New York, you know. There's a whole social tradition of working-class kids coming together to protect the neighborhood, to help each other, you know, it's always been this mutual support system that working class street kids extended to each other. We get tarnished with, with a negative brush. That's how America works. I think America has a history of shitting on it's working-class. But the biggest challenge, I find, is that trying to reconcile who we are as Black men and a largely white Europeans subcult. When I deconstruct that in my mind and what they really mean, you know, I look at British working-class youth culture. They basically identified with the Jamaican working-class who also identified with the American Blues artist, Soul R&B artist, whatever of the late 50s, early 60s, right? So, everything kind of points back here. American working class kids are the origin of musical styles, aesthetics from jazz, blues, hip-hop, R&B, gospel. We are rooted and authentic cultural expression. Expresses itself in gangs and the cliques, in the clubs, in the youth organizations or whatever that influenced the Jamaican kids, the rude boys, that influenced the British mod, Rolling Stones and all those white rock stars. They love Black R&B and American Blues artists. We are the essence.

MIC

Post War, working class, London youth culture gave rise to several different scenes identifiable by music and fashion styles, including Mods, Teddy boys, and Rockers. Skinhead culture developed in an intersection of the English Mod culture and Jamaican rude boy style, which Jamaican diaspora introduced from Kingston to England in the 60s, and from there cross-pollinated with the London scenes and across the country. Rude boys, which were basically Jamaican street cats that were cool, they were hip, they were with it, they had the style, and they were where it was when it was happening. Rude boys wore porkpie hats and fitted shirts, a look influenced by Black soul and R&B singers from the United States. Skinhead style rose to popularity again with punk rock in the late 1970s England, and that style filtered back here with the rise of American punk and hardcore.

MIC

When I first became a skinhead I didn't realize that the first skinheads were black rude boys. I almost felt like a metaphysical, cosmic, spiritual thing. I discovered this and I was drawn to it, but I didn't realize that it was my people who also brought it.

MIC

This next interview is with David Jeffries and Gator again, Jason Nevelles. Gator was a founding member of the Baldies along with me. Dave was a Black skinhead that came from Atlanta about a year or two after the Baldies started and quickly became close to us and became a central member of the crew. His role was so integral as one of the best fighters and one of the brightest personalities in the crew. So this is Dave, Jay, and I talking in Minneapolis.

MIC

Here comes Dave walking across the street with Swamp.

DAVID

And you guys knew him, he had told me, he was like “yo, I know these cool dudes up here.” Then I like noticed like little shit, like I would see his white power shit, and I'd think, "dude, that’s spelled wrong." And he’d be like, "whatever, man." And I was like, "that’s not how you spell white power." It’s like N-E-G-G-E-R. That's... Did you notice that? Yeah, his shit was backwards and I would be like...

JAY

He didn’t seem like a real racist to me, he just seemed like just a dumb white boy.

MIC

Most of the dudes that I met that were so-called racist, wanted to be cool with brothers on a certain level, but you just knew that like when we weren't around, and they were with their people, they were gonna be all hardcore racists.

MIC

Here, you're gonna hear again from Nissa.

NISSA

I recall this clearly: there was always the opportunity given, like cut it out. Join us. Learn the true history. White supremacy is a lie, you’re being tricked by it, too. You guys, especially the men, you would actually try to talk to those guys sometimes. Especially individuals. But if they were having a concert or trying to go jump people in the name of white supremacy, they had to be stopped. And we did a great service to the Twin Cities that we stopped them. Minneapolis and St. Paul, the whole metro area would be a radically different place if we hadn’t stopped them. That can only be considered defense and support of the community.

MIC

Here you're gonna hear Dave, Jay, and I talking again in Minneapolis. Basically, just remembering what it felt like being a Baldie in those years.

DAVE

I've always been around violence. It took me a long time to like, understand how it’s so, like, immersed in our culture as Americans or living in America or whatever you want to call yourself. Dude, you grow up in a inner city here, you’ve been programmed.

JAY

Poverty is violence.

DAVE

Hunger is violence. Being treated like shit is violence.

MIC

One of the things that I've always been proud of is our relationship to violence and coming through the fear of getting hurt and actually taking a principled stand against things that we deemed, there had to be consequences for certain things. At the same time, I wanted to be careful about people not just glorifying fights.

JAY

That's was the times. That's just how it was. We all know nazi’s only understand and respect one thing and that's a ass whooping. We used to talk to those clowns all day long and it didn’t change them. But you gotta let them know you ain't coming to our town putting your roots down, think you're going to get a crew growin' in here. So I think the violence kept a lot more of the serious ones away. They're fuckin scared. They don't want to fight straight up, they want to jump people and do all their shady shit like they always do. They're not straight up brawlers. I mean, look how many threatening letters we got. "Oh, we’re gonna come kill you." I'm like, dude, they had so much access. They could have gunned us down in a heartbeat. They talk a lot of shit and they don’t back it up.

MIC

I remember them dudes came up to us to talk to us on the corners. But only when they drove away did they go, “white power!” Remember that?

JAY

I mean, how many nazi’s came up to us and squared up?

MIC

None.

JAY

None.

MIC

None.

MIC

The violence that emerged between us and our rivals began to draw others into our anti-racist organizing. Various radical leftists formations and individuals showed up to organize and fight with the Baldies. Members of various Black and Latinx gangs, revolutionary anarchists, punk rockers, radical feminist youth, skaters, and other anti racist skinheads from other cities in the Midwest formed a regional network and fighting force.

MIC

Eventually, we reached out to people in other cities who were having the same problem. So there was like Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Chicago, Illinois - strong allies in Chicago. Lawrence, Kansas, lot of cities in the Midwest and I think it was in about 87 or 88, we had our first meeting that was multiple cities that like over a hundred anti-racist skinheads and anti-fascist activists from different cities came to Minneapolis, and we had a meeting at the library.

MIC

The uptown library in South Minneapolis was in the center of uptown, which was the neighborhood that all the punks and alternative kids hung out in, the skinheads as well. You know, to think about it to this day, it does sound weird to talk about how central the library was for us as a hangout. And I don't know who the adults were that worked there. But they must have been supportive and sympathetic to our cause, because they would let us use the conference rooms for free. And so when we had our first syndicate meeting, over 100 skinheads came from all these different cities across the Midwest, and they let us use their biggest conference room for that meeting. And they didn't interfere. You know, I don't think I saw one adult. It was like, there must have been a point of contact in our crew, I think it was Kieran. And they just would let us do what we want. So we were always respectful. We never put graffiti on the library. Matter of fact, when people when other people would, we would get upset because we felt like they were gonna damage our relationship. And that was one of the, one of the first times that as a young adult, I got up. People were like, you should get up and say a speech and then I got up to say the speech, and I looked at the room, and it's, I was like, "aw, shit." I felt the tear coming. It was a very powerful, humbling thing to know that us as children had been able to pull that off. Yeah.

MIC

At the library, we formed The Syndicate. The Syndicate was basically this network of anti-racist skinhead crews and anti-fascist crews that were ready to hunt down Nazis in their cities because we understood that in order to confront violent racists, we couldn't just do it ideologically and we couldn't do it with words and language. We could do all those things and we were doing all those things, but we had to be willing to find them where they were and fight them. That was the beginning of that culture. Little did I know at that time, that simultaneously, there was an anti-facist movement that mirrored what we up to that was happening in Europe. I didn't find that out til later.

MIC

You’re about to listen to Jabari, AKA Corky, another Black skinhead from SHOC--Skinheads of Chicago--who also lives in Atlanta. Corky was integral to the political development of the Skinheads of Chicago as a crew, along with Marty, and he later moved to the west coast and was active in the anti racist skinhead scenes in the Bay Area.

JABARI (CORKY)

There are people who brought ideology to the clique and who brought muscle to the clique and who really brought useful points of view. So, thought and muscle. But it wasn’t until summer of 88 when y'all came down that we got the vocabulary that was missing--the idea of direct action. Up to that point, we just liked to brawl, we liked to fight in the streets, that was it. While we believed it had some philosophical underpinnings, when it comes down to it, we were just fighting and drinking. But then when y'all gave us the language of anti-racist action, direct action, and confrontation and principled anti-fascism, it’s like, ahh... here we go. That's what we were missing. That was the missing component. For all the, the lofty phrases that I might want to use about working-class solidarity, whatever, did not connect like direct action did. Now people're like, "oh shit, yeah, direct action, yeah. Let’s go deliver some direct action!"

MIC

As the Badies influence began to expand it became clear that we were no longer just a crew of a few dozen hardcore skinheads on a local mission. The emerging network of anti fascist fighters needed a name. The Baldies decided to call this broader network Anti Racist Action or ARA. We believed that we had to confront organized racial hate with direct action, not just words and ideas.

MIC

There was a punk zine called Maximum Rock 'n' Roll, there was another one called Your Flesh, and in these zines, these like black and white paper rags, there would be scene reports from different cities. And so you could go down, I think it was Schindler's Bookstore, they had these zines and you buy them and there will be reports from the West coast, the Southwest, the East coast and you started to see like, all these people are fuckin having nazi problems everywhere right now. You reach out to people in those scenes. There was some of us in the punk scene who traveled a lot, or people who were in bands that were on tour and they would meet people from different scenes and they would hear about what was happening in those cities and they'd get peoples' contact. You go in your kitchen and you pick up your clunky telephone, dial the number and you call somebody. Or you'd go to a phone booth. There were even chain letters. We built the network that way and that network came all the way out to Portland.

MIC

In that year, 1989 and 1990, a number of Minneapolis Baldies became aware of the white power skinhead problem that was happening in Portland. And they travelled to Portland as a group and provided material support for Portland Anti Racist skinheads. That was such an integral part of the relationship between anti racist and anti fascist in Minneapolis and anti racists and anti fascists in Portland. There is a connection that still exists to this day.

I was not on the first trip that the Minneapolis Baldies took to Portland, but I remember hearing the stories about how active that trip was in terms of what happened on the streets. The people in Portland felt that it was very helpful, very supportive the way we came out.

During my years in the Minneapolis Baldies and in the founding era of Anti Racist Action, it was very clear who the enemies were and where we could find them. Those enemies, that element wanted to be part of the scene that we were in. And so, they would come to the same shows and they would show up in the same neighborhoods, and sometimes they would come to the same parties. And so that was the arena in which we interacted. Later, the evolution of the movement began to be not just focused on local activity of white supremacists, but national activity, and so, different ARA chapters would communicate to each other and share intelligence because doxxing emerged as a practice in which you could investigate and find out where your enemy worked, where they lived, and expose that information in the hopes to put social pressure on them. A lot of time these people that were in hate groups operated in secrecy. To expose what they were up to with their racist activity was a weapon. Something that also developed along with doxxing was not just street fighting but finding out where their organized events were going to be and then showing up and engaging in direct action to get the events shut down. Some of these events would be at churches, or different buildings in the community. We didn’t know if some of the people who ran these organizations even understood that by allowing those events to happen that they were sponsoring white supremacy. That emerged and transitioned into counter demonstrations and counter protests, in which members of Anti Racist Action and different anti fascist organizations would show up in unison to make a public presence whenever the white power people wanted to have a demonstration. You know, this is a long tradition, but it’s a lot of what we still see today in the streets with the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer and the black bloc showing up. So, the ways in which we organized evolved over time. I do think it’s important to note that, between the time ARA started, coming out of the anti-racist skinhead scene started by the Minneapolis Baldies and emerging into different chapters of ARA around the world, and then ultimately into ANTIFA. There were also people who were closer to the original culture of what developed ARA, which was groups of friends who were skinheads who were anti-racists, who believed in fighting nazis. And that, there is actually sometimes a lot of difference between that culture that's based more on friendship and the more sophisticated organizing that emerged later and, in fact, there’s sometimes tension between different approaches. There’s people who feel like the doxxing and the more research-based approach is too intellectual, and doesn’t really accomplish as much as street violence will. There’s a lot of us who were part of the street violence that are grown and don’t engage in that kind of activity because, you know, a lot of us are in our 50s now. You know, we've got houses and careers and kids and families, and the way that we were able to do that because, you know, we were passionate, also had a lot to do with how young we were. We had a lot less to lose and for where our consciousness was and our commitment was, it made more sense at the time because it felt like a more effective approach. Matter of fact, back then, if you would've told us, you know, there are other ways to approach the problem, we would've disagreed with you passionately. I think the reason we were committed to violence was because it felt like we were the only people who were gonna do something about it and that that was the most profound way to engage the issue. People wanna hear you say you're either for it or you're against it in terms of violence and what I'll say is that right now, it's not in my interests to go out and commit acts of violence. If my life is threatened, I'm gonna respond accordingly. I'm happy that I spent so much time being engaged in the kind of violence that was common, that I know what that feels like, but it's not something that I want to participate in unless those that I love are actually threatened. Will I tell people that it's wrong? I feel like, violence is dangerous. You can get hurt and you can die, and you might end up killing somebody. But I want us to remember that white supremacy and hate is a form of violence and terror. At the core of the set of beliefs of white supremacists, is they believe that it's not only their right to kill you, but to get away with murder because of who you are. So, what is the appropriate response to that? I can't tell you that it's, it's right to go out and hurt somebody for what they think, but at a certain point, it is a form of defense, it is a form of community defense, and it is a form of you asserting your right to be human in the face of somebody that's trying to strip you of those rights.

ERIN

Thanks for listening to Episode Four of It Did Happen Here. There are show notes with links, transcripts, and other relevant content at our website : ItDidHappenHerePodcast.com. You can also find the podcast on the KBOO website, and on Apple podcasts, where you can also leave a review and help other people find out this podcast exists. In this episode, interviews were by Anna Stitt, Celina Flores, Erin Yanke, Sole, and Mic Crenshaw, and your host was Mic Crenshaw. Anna has a documentary on the Baldies, and an interview in Teen Vogue that we link to in the show notes. This podcast is produced by Celina, Mic, and me, Erin Yanke. Our next episode, They Thought We Were Everywhere, is about the Portland chapter of Anti Racist Action. Music in this episode is by The 4Skins, Willie Williams, and Madball. Thanks to the bands for their music, thanks to the participants for sharing their stories and experiences, and thanks to the Marla Davis Fund, KBOO Community Radio, and to the rest of our production team: Icky A, Julie Perini, Moe Bowstern, and thank you for listening.